The Hindu Business Line : 'Military, politicians are to blame for Pakistan's plight'

ISLAMABAD-based Lt General (Rtd) Talat Masood is a votary of peace with India and active on the Track II front too. In an interview to Business Line, he talks about possible solutions on Kashmir and General Musharraf's clamp down of religious extremism, fearing that his personal security concerns held out the danger of reducing him into "less than an island".

Excerpts:

How do you assess the progress of the peace process?

I think it's a big step forward, that both sides have moved away from confrontation to co-operation and want to give peace a chance. Pakistan has realised it cannot wrest Kashmir militarily and India has also realised that it cannot win a limited war against Pakistan. So military being no solution, we have to look for political solutions through a meaningful dialogue.

There are several external and domestic compulsions looming large on the leadership in both the countries. Pakistan, for instance, has been pushed against supporting militancy, which after 9/11 has become untenable. The rest of the world was finding it very difficult to digest Pakistan's point of view to draw a line between the two (freedom struggle and militancy).

And from the Indian point of view the mantra of cross-border terrorism was not working. The international community wanted India to engage in a dialogue and conduct itself like a regional power and try to seek a peaceful solution.

It was also getting dissatisfied with the human rights record of India in Kashmir. As far as the globalisation process is concerned, that is also a major factor. India less, but Pakistan more so, had been marginalised, enormous resources were being spent on defence and people's problems were neglected. Extremism was another major factor.

How optimistic are you that the peace process will hold?

For the first time I'm genuinely optimistic that the peace process will hold.

But how do we go forward on Kashmir?

I feel having developed a certain environment we have to try to seek a solution in Kashmir taking into consideration the reality...

Which is?

That the people in the Kashmir valley and certain districts of Jammu are alienated. How do you meet the aspirations of such people? Both the sides have to show flexibility in their approach. Pakistan is saying we are willing to forego the UN resolution provided India shows reciprocal flexibility. And India is saying we are prepared to engage in a sustained and substantive dialogue.

What do you see as a viable solution?

The best solution, from a Pakistan perspective, would be the people of the Valley and some districts of Jammu should be allowed to exercise their option.

What about the third option of independence?

The third option could be of a separate entity within the two countries where they can assert their identities in their own countries with a very high level of autonomy. After 10-15 years, or as a final solution, you open the borders between the two Kashmirs.

But how do your prevent people from India and Pakistan crossing over to the other side through these borders? Or are you saying that open up the entire borders of the two countries?

Actually the borders will automatically open once the relationship improves on the question of Kashmir.

Do you see such an arrangement working?

I think both sides want to gain time, so the mindset can change. And there will have to be a lot of media management to do that.

What about LoC as international boundary?

If that were the solution, then what was the problem all these years?

Coming to General Musharraf, how do you think he has delivered, in the background of so many pressures, most of all from the US?

Actually many of Pakistan's problems are because of inherent structural defects, in the sense this has not been a real democracy and hence institutional decision making structures are not there. When these are missing, your decisions are not always right and even if they are right and circumstances demand that they be changed, you have to make drastic changes. Then the whole burden comes on one person.

In a country like India... or for that matter Pakistan with 150 million people if it were democracy, then the burden of decision-making would have been distributed and the pressures would not have been there.

But who is to blame for this state of affairs? Isn't the army to blame for not allowing Pakistan's evolution into a mature democracy?

Of course... I would say both the military and the politicians are responsible. The conduct of the politicians has been very poor and so is the case with the military not understanding the importance of institutions. So both are to be blamed. But there is no point in indulging in the blame game.

What you do is develop a national consensus and move forward.

Which President Musharraf is trying to do?

Yes, but I think he should take along the politicians... the mainstream politicians much more than he is doing now.

How valid do you think was what he said to the Ulemas recently on religious extremism? Was it mere rhetoric or more than that?

No, no, he is very genuine about what he is saying. About the past I'm not sure, his thinking was wavering, but in the last few months he has come to the conclusion that this is the policy that is in the best interest of Pakistan. There is a strong strategic intent now - not just tactical but strategic - to have a cooperative relationship and to ruthlessly eliminate extremism.

Is the army with him in the quest for peace with India?

Yes, they are because they need the economy of the country. They are a professional army and they understand the importance of the moves. But it is the militants who are extremely unhappy with him and they will try their best to sabotage the peace process.

Obviously and hence the attacks on him. How serious is the threat to his life?

His life is obviously in great danger, and there is another danger in that; with his life being in danger, he gets isolated. The security concerns prevent his meeting people, so he gets surrounded by his own people.

And that way you become an island...

Well, even less than that! That he has to somehow avoid and I don't know how he'll do it. Perhaps by getting a lot more inputs from many sources because that is very important for a person who is shouldering such a great responsibility.

As a military person, do you think he will give up his uniform at the end of the year, as promised?

I think he will, now that he has said it, it would be very difficult for him not to do so. And he has had a record of more or less honouring his word.

But once he sheds his uniform, can he still remain an influential President as he is now?

That was what we were hoping, that by his actions, conduct and by his resolve, he would have built up a certain stature that would not have required the uniform. I was hoping that he would have thought of not keeping the uniform. But now that he has been insisting so much on the uniform, my fear is that he himself will feel most insecure rather than the others.

On the issue of Dr A.Q. Khan, there is a section of opinion in Pakistan that this national hero was being made a scapegoat and humiliated just to appease the Americans. Your views.

Whereas his contribution on the enrichment of uranium has been enormous, it goes without saying that he is very much responsible for leading the nuclear secrets out of Pakistan. So while we can give him the credit for the good things he has done, at the same time he has to share the blame for bringing such a bad name to Pakistan.

Response can be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in

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