The Hindu Business Line : `What feel good factor are you talking about?'

It is not only a confident, but a fighting fit and glowing Rashtriya Janata Dal chief, Mr Laloo Prasad Yadav, who has moved into the battle mode to take on the BJP and its allies in Bihar. In an interview to Business Line at the chief minister's official residence on Patna's 1 Anne Road, he dismissed opinion polls as a "guessing game of the hi-fi people," and said he and his allies would win "a minimum of 35 (out of 40) seats" thanks to Mr Ram Vilas Paswan's return, and said grandly, "One day I will become the Prime Minister of India. Nobody will be able to stop that."

Excerpts from the interview:

Will the Laloo magic work this time too?

It is not a question of magic. The people of this country — the unemployed youth, the farmers and the common man — are fed up of this BJP-led Government. Their expectations have not been fulfilled. They only use the name of Ram. Ayodhya ke Ram ka naam aur apna kaam (they grab power in the name of Ram). In Gujarat, thousands of Muslims, including women and children, were massacred... and the BJP and the RSS tried to replicate this experiment all over India but failed.

But the opinion polls are giving the NDA a huge advantage.

Opinion polls are done by the hi-fi people and most of them have been purchased by the BJP.

So they don't reflect the true picture?

Not at all. I urge the Election Commission to stop it. The elections are yet to be held and they are just guessing and announcing the number of seats. In politics, any turn can change things drastically at any moment.

But the economic data from the third quarter, a growth of 10.4 per cent, does it not justify the BJP's `feel good' campaign?

There is no feel good in the country. The feel good factor is only for the RSS people. These people are very cunning. What feel good factor are you talking about when in this country there is not even water to drink? No electricity, no roads, the farmers are committing suicide... not in Bihar but Andhra Pradesh.

But they say that all these deficiencies are much more in Bihar than elsewhere. There is no development here.

I will come to that. Let me finish on the whole country because elections are being held everywhere not only Bihar. In its 1999 manifesto, the BJP had said that 60 per cent of the money would be spent on farmers but, in reality, hardly half per cent of the total Budget was spent on the farmers. They abolished the PDS (public distribution system) on the advice of the business community and the prices of foodgrains have gone up. So have the prices of diesel, petrol, cement, steel. Women are suffering, how can they run their homes? In the name of liberalisation and opening up the economy we are exporting less and importing more. We are today consuming imported goods, fruits, and torches, even lipstick! They spent Rs 800 crore on the India Shining campaign and media ko kamai karwai (gave a huge earning to the media). Indo-Pak relations deteriorated.

But they are improving now...

Only after I went there.

I can vouch that you were a big hit there and were remembered there even last month when I visited Pakistan.

Is that so? I loved being in Pakistan. It felt like I was in my neighbour's house. The affection I got there, including from (President) Gen (Pervez) Musharraf, was phenomenal. I want Indo-Pak unity. So, coming to the state of the country and unemployment, you saw our Biharis being beaten and murdered in Assam, also Maharashtra...

What are your expectations from Bihar this time?

In 1999, there was a wave in favour of Mr Vajpayee and their allies. And 41 seats went to them and we lost many seats. Ram Vilas Paswanji was with them. Now we have an alliance with his party.

But if you are so confident why are you contesting from two seats: Madhepura and Chapra?

That is because when I lost from Madhepura, the people of Madhepura felt their name was spoilt and I was compelled by them to announce my candidature from there too.

I believe you have given Rajiv Pratap Rudy, who is contesting from Chapra, cause for great anxiety?

He is gone... he is a lost case.

So, how many seats will your coalition get from 40?

I am contesting 26 from Bihar and two from Jharkhand. I and my allies, we will win minimum 35.

What about the prime ministership?

That is not an issue now, we will see later.

What would you say are the main issues of this election — communalism or economic factors?

The main issue is the economy. The agenda now is not Ram and mandir. Now they are talking of development.

And saying that there has been no development whatsoever in Bihar...

They are kattarpanthis (hardcore) communalists. They may have Shahnawaz Hussains but will have no impact on the Muslims.

But has not the Congress(I)-led alliance's biggest failure been in sewing up an alliance in UP?

(Angrily) That is because mila hua hei insey Mulayam, and cannot move away from them.

So are you saying Mr Mulayam Yadav is being blackmailed?

In fact, he is blackmailing the secular forces. He is putting up candidates in Bihar also, only at the instance of the BJP and the RSS. He was responsible for stopping the formation of a secular government in 1999 too.

Are you disappointed with Mr Mulayam Yadav? He was very close to you once upon a time.

He is a lost case. He and Mr Amar Singh are playing into the hands of film stars and corporate houses.

But the Congress(I) could not even strike a deal with Ms Mayawati. Didn't you also try?

I did talk to Mayawati but they have threatened her too... on the Taj Corridor issue. So they have got both Mr Mulayam and Ms Mayawati. But they can never ever get Laloo.

What about the lack of development and the deteriorating law and order situation in Bihar?

Right from the British days, Bihar was militant against the British. After Independence, the per capita investment in Bihar was the lowest. Investment came only in the Jharkhand region which is not with us today.

This was a State controlled by the feudal lords where jobs in agriculture are in a few hands, the backward people and the minorities are deprived. So they were demoralised, not allowed to vote, or discuss anything freely. As a result, Bihar was rich but the Biharis were poor. The Mines and Minerals Regulation Act made the Centre the malik. Hamara loha gajre ke bhav mei chala gaya uthar (our metals went to them at cheapest prices). We have demanded that you give us a leap... treat us as a special case, but the Centre never obliged.

You must read the Mohan Guruswamy report (published two months ago on the economy of Bihar). Kidnapping, they say, is an industry in Bihar. Is it not there in UP, Delhi, Rajasthan or Maharashtra? It is all over... but from the time I and Rabri Devi started ruling, they said, jungle raj, jungle raj.

They have started making fun of Bihar and calling Rabri and me all kinds of names. Tomorrow, if we are changed, and if an upper caste man is at the helm, they will say everything is fine with Bihar.

Next year, Bihar is due for Assembly elections. Will Rabriji continue to be chief minister if the RJD returns to power or will you take over?

She is very well established and is doing well. I am not going to remove her.

What is the secret of your looking the same over the last seven years that I have been meeting you... Is it a fitness regime?

Hum kuch nahi kartey (I do no exercise at all). I eat simple food.

What kind of food?

Totally vegetarian, I have given up non-vegetarian food.

From when?

When I was in the jail, Lord Shiva appeared in a dream and as Shivji stood against the mountains, I did pranam. He said nobody will be able to harm you, maas-machli khana chchod do (stop eating meat and fish). That was 18 months ago and I have not even touched an egg. And no milk too.

Why no milk?

I take just a little curd... I have 300 cows in this house. I will show them to you and also two horses.

What is your dream for the future? Do you see yourself as prime minister ever?

Hum ko ek din to banna hi hei, aur hum ko koi nahi rok sakta (One day I have to become PM and nobody will be able to stop me).

So how old are you?

The estimate is about 55, because in the homes of the poor and the backward like us, who was educated enough to go and get a birth certificate in those days?

So you don't have a horoscope at all. Do you believe in it at all?

I do, but all the tantriks and other astrologers, when it comes to predicting my fate, sab fail ho jata hei. Isi liye mantra, tantra, shadyantra (conspiracy) never work against me. All kinds of experiments to get rid of me have failed. I will never allow this country to be ruined by the communal forces.