The Hindu Business Line : `Tragedy of AP is that power is centralised excessively'

After Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh is the third most-criminalised State in the country, and without the intervention of goondas, an aggrieved citizen can rarely get justice, says the Hyderabad-based Dr Jayaprakash Narayan, National co-ordinator of Lok Satta, a movement he started in 1997, after voluntary retirement as an IAS officer.

In an interview to Business Line, he discussed the main issues before the electorate of AP, and why it will be a close call for the Telugu Desam Party.

Excerpts from the interview:

What are the main issues in this election?

The agrarian crisis in the rural sector and the urban-rural divide is a major issue. Though not peculiar to AP, this is felt much more sharply here, partly because of excessive centralisation — both politically and economically in Hyderabad. The second important issue is unemployment, which is quite acute here. Recently, there was a Railway ad for 2,000-3,000 jobs for khalasis and gangmen and 11 lakh people applied!

Is unemployment linked to the growing naxalite problem?

Definitely. Unemployment and corruption result in a sense of frustration and a lazy attraction... the moment you become a gun-wielding naxalite, you wield enormous power, clout and money and become a person worthy of respect. So while naxalism is a challenge to the Indian state, it is also about Indian society, economy and its growth, and also a sense of injustice. In many parts of India, there is a feeling that you cannot get justice through due process. Forget the esoteric concept of social justice; that is a bigger concept. I am talking about a simpler concept of justice. If your rights are trampled upon, to get entitlement for a property or some other right... even such simple elements of the law are not guaranteed.

How worried are you at such frustration only fuelling militancy and violence? Will things get worse?

I am concerned but do not think it will get worse. I am a great believer in the democratic process. However flawed, it has inbuilt mechanisms to ease the pressure.

The elections have come and it is possible to throw out somebody, bring in somebody else. Even if the same fellows come back, they will come back with a lesson... that people are agitated and we have to address these issues. This is what democratic forces can do. As Amartya Sen says, democracy may starve people but it will not kill them. Also, we have good models to address problems in our own country — whether low cost health care, midday meals scheme, female literacy, population control — and they can be replicated. If Maharashtra can remove 150 judges from courts on account of corruption, why can't AP do it?

How much of an issue is corruption in this election?

I think corruption in AP and Karnataka is among the worst in the country, and more than in Tamil Nadu.

Why and how?

For several reasons. The administrative systems left behind by the good old British are still continuing in TN, thanks to a sturdy bureaucracy. But they have been destroyed in AP and Karnataka. Election expenditure is the highest in Andhra Pradesh.

How is money used?

Straightaway to buy votes. Rs 50 to 200 is paid for each vote and often the amount is paid again to the same people to buy the same 50,000 votes.

Even if you spend that kind of money, the returns are not guaranteed, but if you don't spend it, you are out of the reckoning.

And what about liquor?

Oh, liquor flows like water in AP during the elections. There are about 100,000 belt shops that are illegal and, hence, have to pay more mamool. Officially, they do not exist.

What happened to women's fight against liquor in AP?

It became a political issue; somebody reaped a political dividend and then found it unenforceable.

The amount of money made by unscrupulous bureaucrats and politicians through unauthorised sale of bottled liquor is incredible. So that was only a short-term triumph.

How serious is the issue of farmers' suicide?

There is distress and there have been suicides; that cannot be denied. But I do not believe the distress is more than anywhere else in the country. There is no statistical evidence to show things are worse here than elsewhere.

But the suicides are reported more from AP and Karnataka.

Because there is more hype about growth in these two States with Hyderabad and Bangalore competing on the IT front. But more than any single party, the political system in India needs to be blamed for not decentralising power and not focussing on agriculture and value-addition agriculture, the markets, primary education and health care. After all, you cannot say AP is worse than Bihar.

How important is the disenchantment in Telangana?

As far as development, economic growth and discrimination are concerned, even those seeking a separate state concede it is more about cultural identity.

There is backwardness in Telangana but there are parts of Rayalseema and North coastal AP that are even poorer than Telangana. Also, the base in Telangana was so low, that equitably shared tax money does not guarantee equitable outcomes. So there is that dissatisfaction.

The public systems have collapsed in India except perhaps in TN and Kerala where health care and education systems still exist. Thirty years ago, if public education had collapsed in AP, I would have probably been a naxalite. I went to a government school in my village and there was no electricity in my house. But, despite all this, a reasonable quality public education gave me a chance. If nature gave me the genes, society gave me the opportunities.

Which is not possible today?

Not at all. Today, somebody in my shoes, in most parts of India, has no chance whatsoever. Zero chance. His or her potential cannot be realised because public systems have collapsed and even private sector is not delivering.

Will this be an issue in the elections?

No. The tragedy is that it is all framed as an emotional issue... my region rather than my opportunity. These are not issues in the Indian electoral process, though many of us are saying look at public health or public education and systems not merely in terms of money but delivery and accountability. But issues are fought on emotions; whether prohibition or regionalism and they fetch electoral dividends. In Andhra, for instance, criminalisation is rampant in politics and outside. After UP and Bihar, we are the third-most criminalised state in India.

That is surprising.

Oh yes, because there is market demand for criminals. Without criminal intervention almost nothing can be done in AP in terms of enforcing your legitimate rights. If your property is occupied by somebody; if somebody takes money from you and does not repay; if a pet dog bites you and you are poor and deserve a fair compensation of a few thousand rupees, there is no mechanism left to help you. So you have to either swallow injustice and suffer in silence, or become a naxalite and take up the gun, or go to a goonda and get justice through rough and ready means. These are the issues that have to be discussed. But even the naxalites are not discussing them. That is the tragedy.

Is there any other dominant issue in this election?

Vajpayee versus Sonia is an issue. Also federalism. Can you trust the NDA to be more federal than the Congress(I)? Also, the lack of leadership in the Congress(I) in AP. Despite all that is wrong, the question is... in the place of Chandrababu Naidu, who else?

But, then, he is facing a 10-year incumbency handicap, which devastated the Digvijay Singh Government in Madhya Pradesh.

You will never see the MP verdict in AP. Even if the TDP loses, it will be by a whisker. If they win, that too will be by a whisker. It's a close race and the TDP leadership is anxious.

What about women's votes, particularly the self-help groups (SHGs)?

The SHGs are Chandrababu Naidu's strength. There are about 300,000 groups with a five million membership.

What about the Congress(I)-TRS (Telangana Rashtra Samithi) combine? Will that not help?

It certainly helps but not too much. The Congress has messed up in seat allocation and both the parties have neglected giving seats to the BCs. All this has nullified substantially the advantage of their coming together. But the TDP's disadvantage is that it had hoped the TRS-Congress alliance would have a backlash in coastal AP. That has not happened.

What about the Congress(I)'s promise of free power for farmers vis-à-vis TDP's power reforms?

Power reform is an issue but its importance has come down. It is a question of fiscal responsibility versus goodies like free power.

Response can be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in

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