The Hindu Business Line : Bangladesh rues unrest in universities

Conditions in Bangladesh are ripe for growth. It can be much greater than the present 6 per cent, easily 8-9 per cent, but for the corruption and misgovernance. — PROF MUHAMMAD IBRAHIM, DHAKA UNIVERSITY ... even as it supplies the most soldiers to the UN peace-keeping force

(Recently in Dhaka)

The army is unlikely to grab power in Bangladesh because the UN peacekeeping job is lucrative and fetches a good income, said Prof Muhammad Ibrahim, Professor of Physics, Dhaka University and Executive Director of Centre for Mass Education in Science, in a recent chat with Business Line.

Excerpts from the interview:

The last time we met (1998), you had expressed anguish at the law and order situation and innumerable bandhs, resulting in the loss of working days in the University. What is the situation now?

The politicisation of education is very much there, this is part of the political culture in the country. It starts with the students, who are turned into goons, given arms and made party cadres. They fight among themselves, take over the university and dictate to the authorities.

So student elections are big affairs?

No, student elections are not held, the students council is not functioning at least in the bigger universities because it will be so explosive it will be like a national election. But they have all kinds of student politics and they are proxies of the politicians. Actually, they are the top people; they become ministers eventually.

Wow! So that's much better than seeking a job after graduating!

Exactly. The faculty is also divided along party lines. Not all, but many. And they are the ones who matter because they get important posts in universities, like that of Vice-Chancellor. The faculty has its own election and even this take place along party lines.

How have you managed to keep out of all this?

I have other things to do, like work at the CMES.

Have education standards improved?

Yes, things are much better, but could improve further. We now have many private institutions, not big, but small and some of them are good. But, unfortunately, they are only for the rich. Public universities still face problems, most good faculty and students are still there but once the private sector comes in, that can change; they mean business and we don't. For example, when trouble started due to political upheaval, immediately Dhaka University prolonged the Id holidays but private universities did not lose a single day. Come what may, they go by their academic calendar, we don't. To keep Dhaka University open or closed is a big decision, but the private institutions take snap decisions. One of the things the caretaker government did was to raid the hostels for arms.

Did they find any?

Not much. Perhaps the information leaked out!

What kind of arms?

Small arms, but enough to create a problem. Bombs, pistols, a few automatics, maybe.

In India a lot of foreign universities are coming in for twinning programmes. Are you seeing investment in the education sector?

An area of claims and counter-claims is how much foreign investment the country has attracted. Even our staple, the garments industry, will be affected and buyers will not come in if there is violence. And there is a lot of unrest in the garments industry; labourers are revolting for higher wages, better working conditions. Owners complain there is a clique, maybe foreign, doing it mainly to destroy the industry. The agitations were violent, many industrial units were burned down and looted. Some people think that the adolescent girls who work there couldn't have done it; it was done by professionals.

Has the number of bandhs come down?

No, no they have increased, we call them `movements', which means hartals, and politicians resort to them all the time. But the thing about indefinite hartals, which bring the economy and the country to a grinding halt — nothing functions, banks, offices, shops — is that they don't succeed. If you call a hartal for a day it will be observed because nobody will risk his car or shop for a day. But if it's more than that, people ignore the call, because they have to live and the movement collapses because politicians are not that powerful. There is the people's power too.

Is there the danger of the army moving in if there is violence?

Very little, because the army is not in the mood, and there are other correcting factors. The politicians stop short of creating a situation that might bring in army rule. Also, the army itself doesn't want to do it (a coup) because it is now an economic institution. Many in the army earn a lot of money by taking up UN jobs. Bangladesh is the biggest supplier of soldiers to the UN for peacekeeping efforts; both the sepoys and officers go by rotation. There is a long waiting list. People are waiting their turn and they don't want to jeopardise their chances. We were in Lebanon, Bosnia, East Timor. Many of the jawans are very poor and the whole family gets uplifted if he gets a UN peacekeeping job. But the moment there is a coup here, he will be blacklisted there!

What kind of progress have you made on gender issues?

Tremendous, better than India in many respects. It is a recent phenomenon in Bangladesh; the NGO movement has really liberated women, and it has also worked for some pro-women government policies, and all the girls are getting into schools.

And the Mullahs don't object?

Oh no, their daughters are going to school too! They are much softer, because the environment is quite different today.

Also, it makes economic sense because girls who go to schools get a stipend from the government. It may only be a few hundred Taka a month, but it is something, though there are criteria, such as attendance and grades. And now the government is promising to give girls free education.

Would you say that Bangladesh is on the point of take-off, provided it has the right policies in place?

No, I can't say that because we don't have the right government and no policies, but the conditions are ripe for good growth; people say it can be much greater than the present 6 per cent... it could easily be 8-9 per cent, but for corruption and misgovernance.

What are the buzzing sectors?

Garments continues to be No. 1, and telecom is seeing strong growth too. The other day, in Chittagong, I saw a beggar boy, a kind of scavenger; he was very dirty but he was carrying a mobile phone!

What about the law and order situation?

The government did something about it, but the manner was questionable. There were extra-judicial killings of troublemakers... the same old story: "We arrested him from home, his comrades opened fire on us and in the cross-fire he died." The Rapid Action Batallion was formed, which carried out this task. So were there protests?

No, people didn't care. These people had made life so miserable and the judicial system was not effective because these people go to court and get bail, come back and kill a few more.

But the problem was that the government action was high-handed and gave tremendous power to some people; anybody could be picked up and killed.

There is a growing feeling in India that fundamentalism and terrorism are taking firm root in Bangladesh; surprising, because the Bengali is considered liberal, secular.

This is not true because terror groups are very tightly knit. And they can be formed anywhere, as it happened in Britain. For instance, the Jamatil Mujahiddun is a tightly knit group of unassuming, ordinary people; somehow, it got caught in this situation. Some of their leaders were involved in Afghanistan. They carried out attacks, mainly on judges. On a single day, about a year ago, they simultaneously attacked 64 courthouses in different districts, but in such a way that nobody was wounded; it was more a protest.

Against what?

This law is not our law; this is not Allah's law; this is human and, hence, evil. Their target is the judicial system and they want to bring in Islamic law.

Even in the Mumbai blasts, some of the terrorists had come via the Bangladesh border.

Could be. The problem is that sometimes the government tends to be lenient with this group and some of its leading members were rubbing shoulders with people in the government.

Was the BNP encouraging them because the Jamaat-e-Islami was part of the coalition?

Not necessarily. But since they are Islamic-minded, the BNP thought they are its supporters and the people raising a hue and cry were the Opposition, journalists and civil society — anti BNP people.

But isn't there a well-established terror network here?

If somebody is threatened here he will go to India because the border is porous, but they are not organised enough to run an international terror network; they don't even have the means to run a Bangladesh network! They are extremely unassuming and humble people; a madrassa teacher here, a shopkeeper there.

So, the government did crack down on them?

Oh yes, when they did, they did it very well and, after that, not a single incident happened. Even on the day they were sentenced to death, there was no reaction from the people. This means that there is no remnant of them left and it was a clean job.

(Response may be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in)

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