The Hindu Business Line : A militant without local support is `like fish without water'

Yes, definitely. He came here, addressed the people and tried to establish a chord with them. He symbolised the aspirations of the people of Kashmir, by extending a hand of friendship with Pakistan. He did not say anything jingoist... his tone was conciliatory and he talked of Kashmiriyat as a theme. That was a great act of statesmanship on his part.

But when you talk of Kashmiriyat, that also symbolises diversity and respect for diverse cultures. Now the big blot on Kashmir and Kashmiriyat is what has happened to the Kashmiri Pundits, who have been forced to live like refugees in their own country.

You should have been there when they came to the mela of Kher Bhavani recently... . It was a crowd of 50,000 people. They kept coming in till 2 a.m. that night. Kashmiri Muslims with long beards served them with tea and welcomed them.

So what are you doing to get them back?

We are trying to create a conducive atmosphere for their return. I never believed that their young ones would come. But the young people came and said we do not want to go back.

Obviously because this is their real home. But do you have any concrete proposals for their return?

The main thing is to create a conducive atmosphere for their safe return. They are here now in great numbers, moving around freely... they are coming from Delhi, Kolkata, Jammu and Jaipur. Their children are saying that we want to come back.. after all Kashmir is a lovely place. But unless we provide diversity, Kashmir mey mazaa hi nahi hei (there is no fun in Kashmir)... and there is no Kashmiriyat. I'm optimistic about their return.

You say the Kashmir people are for peace. But how are they dealing with the jihadi elements... because without support from the local people militancy can't survive.

It is the people who were sustaining them; giving them support and protection. A militant is like a fish without water without local support. So if the people say we don't need them... if the alienation of the people is addressed, then is there is no place for them.

So would so you say the militant in Kashmir today is fish without water?

I don't go to that extent yet.

But you would want that to happen ultimately?

I would want even for the militants to realise that there is a dialogue... a process of reconciliation between our country and Pakistan. There is an emissary of the Government of India, Mr N.N. Vora, who is talking.

So they have no cause to fight. After September 11, terrorism as a whole... even those with the right cause who take up guns - don't get support. So they also have an opportunity to come forward.

When we say India and Pakistan will talk to resolve the Kashmir issue, what do we mean by `resolve'? And what do you see as a resolution of the Kashmir problem and a solution.

It will be through an evolutionary process... through a zig zag process. Both the countries have stated positions on Kashmir; for us it is the core of our nationhood, a crown and an integral part of India. Pakistan says it is our lifeline.

So do you think both the countries will have to move from their stated positions?

I don't know that... but it is a tortuous process.

As CM of the State, do you also say that Kashmir is an integral part of India?

I have been saying that all along.. as the Home Minister of India and all my life. But I also say that if there is an ultimate solution, which resolves the problem, I'm not against that.

But what can that solution be?

I don't know.

What are the major challenges facing your Government today?

A. They are both political and economic. And we're trying to win over and involve people in every decision making and development process. It is difficult job.

And running a coalition Government... do you face problems?

No, I'm trying to carry everybody along... including the Opposition.

There is a feeling in Jammu and Ladakh that there is Kashmiri hegemony in this region...

No, that is not there anymore. We've tried to address the concerns of those regions, especially Ladakh, Kargil and Jammu.

What is the truth on Sarp vinash. There are claims and counter claims of it being a hoax.

I don't know about that.

But what is the operation all about and what impact has it made for the State?

There were some places, which were safe havens for foreign militants, which have been taken over by the army. So there is a discernible change and as far as infiltration is concerned... the fencing along the LoC is proving effective in stopping it. Previously, the perception of the army was that this is not our job. Our job is to fight eyeball to eyeball, but now they are addressing this problem.

But accusations against army excesses continue.

There are some exceptions. In the unified command meetings... one or two meetings where the deputy Prime Minister was present, we told them you are a responsible, disciplined force, and while dealing with the militancy you have to avoid human rights violations. And there has been improvement on that front.

Your assimilating the SOG with the police force has brought in good results too.

Oh yes, the unnecessary friskings and interrogations have come down.

One can see that people are breathing more normally.

A General Secretary of the TDP was here the other day to attend a marriage and he told me the festivities continued beyond midnight.

What is your dream for Kashmir?

It should become a paradise on earth it once was... when we could go around the streets till midnight.

Are you hopeful that this time the dialogue with Pakistan will achieve something? If yes, then what gives you that hope?

The ground reality, the geopolitical situation and the realisation that there is no other way.

What about the azadi bhoot which was there earlier...

What azadi... I would say let us have the azadi to move around freely... somebody who leaves from here in the morning can reach Islamabad by the evening, and vice versa... let's have azadi of movement.

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