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Rasheeda Bhagat

recently in Srinagar

THE National Conference President and MP, Mr Omar Abdullah, says that by going nuclear and "talking more than acting" India has weakened itself on Kashmir vis-à-vis Pakistan. He told Business Line in an interview in Srinagar that "Today Gen Musharraf is laughing; let's admit it."

Excerpts from the interview:

How do you see the Prime Minister, Mr Atal Bihari Vajpayee's visit to Kashmir and his offer to Pakistan for a dialogue?

He may be genuine but come on, let's face it, this problem won't go away overnight. I'm glad that a sense of realism dawned on him because we... and I was also part of that government... had been making very unrealistic presumptions that the world would wait for us while we said that terrorism should end, or the list of 20 acted upon, before a dialogue could begin.

Today Gen Musharraf is laughing. He thumbed his nose at us, he stared down the barrel of our gun and said: To hell with you, do what you can. And we did nothing. We're on the defensive, let's admit it.

So are we succumbing to US pressure?

The US pressure or our own inability. We talk more than we act. Jang key badal nazar aa rahey hei.. yeh hei, who hei... aar ya par ki ladai... rubbish.

Are you saying we should have declared war?

How can you have a conventional war between two nuclear powers? We cannot go to war with Pakistan. India has weakened itself by going nuclear. Prior to that, we could defeat Pakistan in a conventional war. Not today. Gen Musharraf said it in London that with India being superior in conventional strength, in a war we will be forced to consider other painful alternatives.

You say realism has dawned; but better late than never, right?

Obviously. Thank goodness for that. My only worry is that we don't seem to be making much progress. We still have the same band-bazi going on.

Band-bazi?

Sloganeering... any discussion about Kashmir will be on PoK not anything else. As though that is going to be acceptable to Pakistan. And then they say well, hang on, discussion will be on Indian Kashmir. Both sides need to shut up for a while and decide we're not going to mention Kashmir when we mention each other. How are we going to build confidence if we keep hammering each other?

How do you sense the mood of the people here?

Obviously they want peace. But what direction that peace is going to take is questionable.

In Pakistan everybody says that with Gen Musharraf being both President and army chief and having the ISI with him, it is now or never vis-à-vis peace with India. Do you think India should grab this moment?

Most people have always believed that a solution to J&K will emerge out of a BJP government in India and a military dictator in Pakistan. Any solution by the Congress will be shot down by the VHP, RSS and other hardliners. So fine, this is the moment.

What do we man by "resolving" Kashmir? What is the solution?

That's a tricky one because for different people it means different things. For the average Kashmiri, it means peace and some agreement on where their future lies. Unfortunately all of us have been brought up in the belief that our future has not been decided. Rightly, or wrongly, that is the perception drilled into people's minds here. This whole UN lot that roams around here... as far as the average Kashmiri is concerned, the UN is here because the final solution has not emerged.

But do you believe that? After all you are a member of the Lok Sabha...

J&K acceded to India. The accession, at least till recently I believed, was part of a free and fair process ratified by the Constituent Assembly. But the Prime Minister, in his wisdom, has questioned even the ratification when he says that this was the first free and fair election in J&K. I am then wondering how free and fair that Constituent Assembly was. Because if that wasn't free and fair, we have a lot to answer to the people of J&K.

What do you want? Plebiscite?

No, the days of plebiscite are behind us, and a solution can be found without trudging down that path. We need to be careful about tom-tomming election results. An analysis gives a disturbing conclusion. A 40-45 per cent turnout doesn't mean the State does not have a problem internally. Jammu and Ladakh have never claimed not to be a part of India.

The problem has been Kashmir, where at best the turnout is in the 1930s... proving a good percentage is alienated and needs to be reached out to.

So the feeling of alienation continues?

We would be foolish to think it doesn't. It takes one stray incident of human rights violation to have 15,000-20,000 people shouting we want azadi. Every time somebody has a grouse it reflects in the azadi slogan. That is the pity, which Delhi for some strange reason does not want to address. Some amount of give and take is absolutely essential. No solution that is going to be arrived at between Islamabad and Delhi is going to work here unless the people of J&K feel that's fine.

Will restoration of total autonomy work?

I don't know whether you can restore total autonomy but you can start a dialogue, and see where the process ends. If the PM and the Deputy PM can say that in addressing our problems with Pakistan we need to be flexible, should you not tell the people of J&K that you're willing to be flexible internally also?

How does this final solution take place? Let somebody from the Government of India answer me logically. You say you want to talk to the Hurriyat. Let's assume for a moment that the Hurriyat decides to act reasonably and says: `Yes, we're willing to talk to N. N. Vora'. What are you going to talk to them about when the BJP still stands firm on its promise to remove Article 370? So, what are you going to tell the Hurriyat... that look, to hell with it, we're not going to give even an inch. If you want to call off the struggle you can do it, or else we don't give a damn.

J&K became a problem because you had an internal problem. The people rose in anger in the early 1990s.. It's a difficult fact to swallow, but we have to admit it. There was a popular uprising for what they call azadi in the early 90s.

Why, and who is to blame?

A. Because they were disgruntled and mistakes were made by the State government; there were numerous mistakes made by successive governments in Delhi.

In hindsight what kind of mistakes did the NC make?

First of all, we should never have tied up with the Congress. It's something even my father has admitted. In 1987, the Rajiv-Farooq accord was a monumental and political mistake. The intentions were good but politically it was a mistake for which we paid a price.

And so was it a mistake to ally with the BJP?

Aligning with the BJP was not so much a mistake as continuing with the BJP, first when they threw out our autonomy resolution, but much worse, after Gujarat. If the NC had broken away from the NDA after Gujarat, we would have been in power today and nobody would have stopped us.

So what are you doing, sitting out of the government?

It is a learning experience; though not a great experience. The NC is not used to being in the Opposition.

Do you see the Lok Sabha polls taking place before schedule?

It all depends on the monsoon and the results of the four Assembly elections taking place this year. If the BJP takes even three, which it is likely to, and you have a decent monsoon, then we'll have General Elections in February-March 2004.

And how do you see the alliances panning out?

Oh, its going to be a battle of alliances and in this battle the BJP is far ahead of the Congress.

Would you ally with the BJP?

We never allied with the BJP in elections and we never will.

What about the Congress?

For a Congress-NC alliance, you'll need to have an NC/Congress government here!

Which looks a possibility...

Who knows?

Are you already talking with the Congress?

Why should we? We never closed our doors to the Congress; we never said anybody but the Congress... they said anybody but the NC and the BJP. If the Congress would rather have an ally in the form of a person who during the elections was quite happy to say, "pehley NC sey azadi, phir baki azadi" and "Mujahideen, get up, we won't let your 13 years of sacrifice go in vain... a vote for the PDP is the first step towards freedom," good luck to them.

Even after winning Ganderbal, the PDP man said: Mujahid, put your guns down, your representatives have reached the Assembly as your voice.

It was shocking to see you lose in Ganderbal.

Nobody was more shocked than I. I should have seen the writing on the wall. As they say pride comes before a fall. There is nothing more humbling than losing an election.

So, obviously you'll contest again for Lok Sabha?

No, I pretty much doubt that. I'm in state politics.

It must have been a difficult decision not to return to Delhi as minister. After all Vajpayee kept your resignation in abeyance for a long time.

On the contrary, it was the easiest thing to do. Can you imagine the embarrassment of having to sit on the same stage as Mufti when the Prime Minister makes all these grandiose speeches? There is not much respect for allies in the NDA.

Really?

A. Look at how they are humiliating the DMK because they want to keep their options open on Jayalalithaa. NDA allies are tolerated as long as they keep their mouths shut.

(Response can be sent to rasheeda@thehindu.co.in)

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