It was during one of her several conversations with her family, that Sujatha Gidla heard what it was like for a Dalit to enter college in erstwhile Andhra Pradesh, merely a generation ago — it felt like being “an ant among elephants”, squashed by a system always pitted against you. At once, Gidla knew she had found the title and the sentiment that encapsulated her book about caste. Having just released the book both in the US and in India, Gidla, a subway conductor in New York City, talks to BLink over a Skype interview, about how her book came about, the underbelly of caste she cannot unsee and the backlash from her community as well as Hindu nationalists for telling the truth.

Ants Among Elephants received a great deal of attention in the US. How surprised/happy have you been about the reaction to your book?

I thought that if people have the same taste as I do, in social views and interests and literature, they would like it. But because of the Left politics involved, I didn’t know how receptive people in the West would be. That was actually a big concern when I started writing.

But as I began writing, I felt there is a human interest larger than one’s politics. My mother Manjula’s stories for example. So, I became more confident, even with the issue of politics. I kind of sensed the good reception, although I was not completely sure because some good books don’t make it. My publisher rejected (George Orwell’s) 1984, which went on to become a major hit.

But yes, if my book got what it deserved, then I was sure it would be a success.

How excited are you about bringing this book out in India?

HarperCollins has released the book in India in December. I am quite excited. When I left India, it was very different. There is a sizeable liberal social layer in India now, so the kind of reception I am getting here was unexpected in the beginning to me. I was really surprised; but it’s welcome. Even when Wendy Doniger’s book (The Hindus: An Alternative History) was only exploring the complexities of Hinduism in a positive way, people did not like it. So I did expect somebody or the other to object to my book too.

In my case, people associated with the Maoist party did not like certain things I said about them in the book. This is a new group who dislikes books now, different from the religious people.

Are you worried about it?

I am not here for the money, and I know by now how popular the book is. If you threaten me now, I am going to dig my heels in.

I heard you mention at the Brooklyn Book Festival about the hate responses your mother, who lives in India, had received post publication. Could you please tell us more about it ?

These (people) were my mother’s colleagues for the last 50 years, from her days at the Government’s Women’s College in Kakinada. Sharing their personal stories and domestic problems, they had this great unity and bond. But now, when caste came into the picture, it dissipated. It really shows what is paramount in India. What takes precedence over what other kind of oppression. In the case of these women, they were no longer connected with my mom based on women’s solidarity; and so they stopped talking to her.

The day an article appeared about my book in the Telugu daily Andhra Jyoti, it was 7.30 am and my mother was still asleep when the phone rang. It was her ex-colleague. And even before my mother could say “Hello” a barrage of abuses came in: “How dare your daughter write this book? Have we not treated you like one of us all these years? And you go ahead and have your daughter write this nonsense? You benefited from reservations and you are still crying? Where have you seen casteism?” She is a very frail woman and lives alone, and when the caller says these things, it physically impacts my mother. It’s scary and her colleague’s husband too chimes in, “Nothing is original in that book. Whatever history she has put in is all copied from (writer) Ramachandra Guha.” Now none of her ex-colleagues are talking to her and none of the neighbours acknowledge that they read this in the paper.

They all were so close, and all this solidarity dissipated over one newspaper article.

No one who attempts to write family history is said to be prepared for the hate that comes from within the family once the story is out. How true was it in your case?

So yes, Philip Roth had to face this when he wrote about his family. Salman Rushdie went through something similar though what he wrote was fiction. But for me it is completely the opposite. My mother is very into it. My siblings didn’t hate the idea of this book, but they never expected acceptance, let alone success. They were all through worried and extremely anxious. When the book was released, they didn’t show much interest. And when The New York Times article came in, they were like, “Ah!”. They have slowly started expressing how glad they are, and none of them are complaining about anything I have revealed.

Your book provides a different and better understanding of India and goes against everything that is popularly accepted and imagined about the country. It’s your lived experience. At a critical point in your life, you were able to distance yourself from all this and look back at it after a long exposure to the American culture. How did that experience help this book?

It helped tremendously. This was all life for me, so I didn’t think of it as interesting. Because people in the US started seeing them as stories, I was able to think beyond feelings of shame. I realised the value of my experiences as events that stirred curiosity, that other people could sympathise with, and learnt to not see them as shameful stories.

A recent caste survey pointed out that one in four Indians practise untouchability. But the State of Andhra Pradesh, where your story happens, ranks very low on that list. What do you think about that?

Here I understand untouchability is just about physical touch. The survey doesn’t ask questions about casteist feelings.

I never viewed this issue as just untouchability, instead as discrimination. If you look at untouchability as just a touching problem, then I can imagine why it’s high in north India, because it is a very Hindu-Hindi belt, much like the Bible belt in the US, hence more conservative.

What is it to be revolutionary all your life and belong to a family of fighters? You also became the first Indian woman to be a New York subway conductor.

It has been very difficult for my family. My uncle was the founding member of the People’s War Group, but he was kicked out and he died in ignominy. His ex-comrades buried him completely because of his caste. He lost his reputation even among dalits. When Mala and Madiga communities had issues with their claims for reservation, my uncle, though he belonged to the Mala community — the most dominant among the dalits in Andhra Pradesh — sided with Madigas. He was called a traitor by the Malas, and the Madigas didn’t like him as they felt he should have done more for them. He died without recognition, and that was because of his political principles which he stuck to come what may. That’s the kind of spirit my mother, me and my sister have. And we do suffer. People who generally admire dalit achievers or leaders don’t really care for us. We continue to suffer being principled through all of this.

How concerned are you about how your Naxalite past would be seen back home?

Economist Tyler Cowen interviewed me for his blog. He is a favourite among the upwardly-mobile Indian community in the US. Prior to the interview, he put out a post asking if anyone had questions that he should be asking me. And we got such hateful comments. One called me “a communist”, and said, “How did she get visa to get into the US? She should be immediately deported”. So that is the view of the Hindu nationalist in the US. Of course, the nationalists in India are going to be more rabid. I have my US citizenship, and I expect to be somewhat shielded from that kind of hatred in India because of it. If somebody kicks me out of India, I have at least a place to go.

Tell me some more about the writing process.

I worked at the Bank of New York as a programmer, and would work from 9 am-6 pm and then stay back and work from 6 pm-10 pm on the book. I completed a major part of my book while in that job before moving to work for the New York subway. The only reason that drove me — it was not discipline, not ambition — but the passion to tell these stories. It didn’t start as a book in the beginning; but as an investigation into caste and religion in 1999. The idea of a book didn’t come about until 2005.

I would talk to my mother and uncle and be awed by what I heard, and felt the urge to write what they were telling me. Their stories were so strange, so exotic, so extreme, so passionate and so romantic; I wanted everyone to read it and feel the same way. Also, I had to extensively research into stories that unfolded outside of my own family so that people won’t challenge the veracity of what I said.

Leena Gita Reghunath is a journalist based in the US

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