The MNREGA scheme could be tweaked to give long-term benefits to farmers, says Mr Bhavarlal Jain, Chairman of Jain Irrigation Systems, who, after bringing the entire banana belt in Jalgaon under drip irrigation, is now working on a model to help small, dryland farmers.

Excerpts from an interview:

Food prices in India have hit the roof, but has the farmer benefited from rising prices?

Not much. If you paid Rs 100 for a kg of onions, he got about a third. But agri-commodity prices in India have been artificially kept low for 50 years, and now people are bitching about it.

Unfortunately, the farmer is the only producer who does not set his prices. The market decides the prices for apples or onions. We've been unfair to farmers, his input prices have gone up; but we've kept food prices artificially low.

But why are the higher prices not reaching farmers? Like American farmers, can't our farmers organise themselves to call the shots in the market?

There is a catch in that — the whole of US has only 200,000 farmers; we have 60 crore. Our farmers have a 1-2 acre farms, theirs run to 3,000 acres. Today any effort to get our farmers together is only for votes and that divides them.

Politics is the greatest impediment to the progress of rural India. When the BJP is in power, the Congress causes disruption and confusion and vice versa. There is continuous strife and no progress takes place. The day they realise where their real interest lies, they will come together.

What do you feel about the MNREGA scheme and farmers complaining about labour shortage?

This is a very well-intentioned scheme but with some roadblocks. The government in its own wisdom devised a scheme which is not workable.

So how can it be improved?

The money – Rs 45,000 crore – can be used much better. Let's give every small farmer a well on his farm; it may not yield water as in this place (Jalgaon district); but will act as storage space. We have an annual average rainfall of 700 mm, so about 3.5 lakh litre water falls on one acre and he can store at least 1.5 to 2 lakh litres.

But this won't help landless labourers.

Once the dryland farmer gets water, he generates employment and ratio is 1:7, so the labourers will have occupation. Today they tend to squander the money they get under the scheme.

What kind of plans do you have for dryland farmers?

Now we go only to farmers with water, and teach them how to use it. But I want to reach farmers without water; 60 per cent of our agricultural land — (80 per cent farmers) is rain-fed. These farmers can't get water on their land; even if they do, there won't be electricity. I am working on a model with solar energy; a small farm will be given a storage tank of around 3,000 litres and a solar pump. For cotton farmers, it is crucial to sow cotton on May 15, and they need 5,000 litres of water.

Today such farmers get only 2 quintals an acre; this can go up to five times if they get water at the right time. Once he has paid off for this, he next digs his own well and won't buy water.

Have you been talking to the government?

No, I've been experimenting with this model for two years and trying to eliminate difficulties.

What about finance?

The model costs Rs 40,000 per acre; the government gives Rs 8,000 subsidy for drip irrigation and there is subsidy for solar power too. Yes, money is the first difficulty and the question is who will lend to such farmers? Bankers do not give money to those who don't have money. So being a dryland farmer, he is either a defaulter or not eligible for loans.

I'm sure he will make this money in 1- 2 years. In two years, he can repay the entire loan. We're talking to NABARD which has shown great interest.

I want to implement this model before I go; by September-October, one crop will be over. It's a simple idea but it can make India a food-surplus country.

And it can be used not only for cotton but also jowar, bajra, pulses, anything with a long gap. A pilot project is on, but I can't give more details. I'm also working on a cropping pattern for dryland farmers. But ultimately the government has to step in; my resources are too limited for the entire country.

Are you consulted on agri-policy matters by the government? After all you have done wonders with drip irrigation.

No, they have Mukesh Ambani to head an agricultural panel; how would they even know that poor Bhavarlal Jain exists! I wouldn't be surprised if they have Ratan Tata to head the next one. During the first Five Year Plan, Nehru wanted to consult Vinoba Bhave and sent a telegram saying: ‘Start immediately'. Bhave replied: ‘Starting immediately, on foot'. Nehru postponed the meeting. Vinobaji's reply to Nehru on his foot journey is very pertinent to our subject. He said: “What is the use of planning without knowing the people for whom we're planning? ”

Here is a man who has been given honorary Ph.Ds by several of your agri universities, one being 102 years old (Tamil Nadu Agricultural University). But the poor fellow doesn't figure in your scheme of things.

What is your expectation from the Budget?

That MNREGA will be presented in a different form. Instead of going for short-term gains and an eye on the next election, let us keep our eyes on the next generation. That will happen if you give long-term benefits, and not mere loan waivers.

So you disapprove of loan waivers to farmers...

I don't agree with the concept. Give the farmer 20 years to repay the money; let the government pay the banks to clean up their balance sheets, give the farmers what he needs and tell him you have to work and repay.

It is possible to push up farm incomes by 5-6 times; put the Rs 45,000 crore meant for MNREGA at the disposal of the rain-fed farmer. Then you will achieve your election end too because so many of them will vote for you.

What is your take on recent scams and black money in foreign banks?

I don't understand the argument about tax treaties standing in the way of bringing back that money.

I am a student of Constitutional law and commerce and know that international treaties have to do with taxes, but not with ill-gotten wealth. If they don't divulge, technology will. Look at what Wikileaks has done. What will the government do then?

This is people's money and you are keeping it secret from people. What kind of democracy are we talking about?I have a suggestion… let them give 50 per cent of the money to the public exchequer and not declare names. Indians have always been magnanimous and will forgive! Why one lie after another? ...hamey itna badhiya admi (Manmohan Singh) hamari zindagi mei prime minister milne wala nahi hei. Usney zindagi mein kuch nahi liya hei; us masoom admi ko kyo badnam kar rahei hei. (We are not going to get a man of such integrity to head the government in our lifetime. Why are we smearing the name of such a man with such integrity, one who has never been corrupt?)

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