‘My image has been created without even knowing me’

While the seventh phase of polling was in full force, Narendra Modi’s closest confidant and BJP General Secretary Amit Shah seemed relaxed and hopeful. He had just cast his vote and watched television with wife Sonal and son Jayant at home in a quiet neighbourhood in Ahmedabad.

Amit Shah opened up to Poornima Joshi on the sudden bitterness in the election campaign, the prospects of finding future allies in such an atmosphere and his relationship with BJP President Rajnath Singh.

Excerpts from the interview:

The BJP started with the development plank and now the campaign seems to have degenerated into personal attacks and bitterness. What has changed? It seems to have suddenly become Modi-versus-all…

Development is still the main plank of our election campaign. On the whole, I don’t think even 2 per cent of the volume of the campaign contains personal attacks or slights.

But the media picks up only on that 2 per cent in its eagerness to create the illusion that the campaign has somehow been debased.

I watch every political leader’s speeches very carefully; I don’t think they are interested only in attacking each other. That is not true. So far as Modi-versus-all is concerned, that has been the case right from the beginning. They are becoming more voluble as the campaign focuses on their States, their insecurities are now coming to the surface.

But tell us why Modi is focusing on the Gandhis and not the regional players so much while they, whether it is Mamata Banerjee or Lalu Prasad, are far more militant in their attacks.

This is because the UPA is the ruling coalition at the Centre. But it is not as if he is not attacking the SP and the BSP in UP and Mamata in West Bengal. The frontal attack would naturally be more focused on the Centre. These things happen in elections. What is so new?

But the regional leaders seem to be far more vocal in their attack on Modi than he is on them. Is it deliberate, to soften up the regional players for post-election tie-ups?

That is not true. He is highlighting the lack of development in every State and targeting everyone who is responsible. Our target is 272+ for NDA. We are working towards that. There is no other strategy.

What about Jayalalithaa? She has suddenly become very vocal. We would have thought she and Modi had a good relationship…

You will find the answer to this question in the election results — even in Tamil Nadu, where the BJP’s vote share is rising. I don’t want to say anything else.

We would like you to elaborate... Do you mean she is raising her pitch because she feels threatened by Modi?

I told you, I will not say anything more than what I’ve already said. Let the results come out.

You don’t think this pre-election posturing will continue after the elections?

Every party presents its side in the campaign. But the mandate is respected by everyone. Let the mandate come. That has been my experience. Once a party gets the mandate, every other party respects that.

You’ve been handling UP and one could see what has happened in western UP. There is polarisation on communal lines and the BJP seems to be benefitting from it. But in the eastern parts, and one has travelled there, the BJP’s campaign doesn’t seem to have picked up. So unless there is Hindu/Muslim discord, your party does not do well, is that it?

I am sure you went there (eastern UP) when the campaign had not even begun. But I would ask you to make a trip now — the atmospherics are completely different. It is a one-sided election, there is a wave. This Hindu-Muslim issue that you are raising, I would say your perspective is warped. It is not about Hindus and Mussalmans. It is about administrative collapse and absolute mishandling of the situation.

People are angry with the State Government for allowing the situation to go out of control…

But the BJP’s involvement…

Again, I would ask you to examine the situation not on communal lines but from the people’s perspective. People are voting in a certain way because there is anger against the Government, both among the Muslims and the Hindus.

The riots happened because the Government did not respond. Police action was driven by vote bank politics. They did not handle the situation properly.

Okay, let us forget western UP for a while. Let me ask you about whether people are responding to the BJP because of Modi’s personality or this development agenda? Tell me specifically about UP where caste and communal polarisation are the only factors in elections...

We will get the maximum number of seats from UP this time. I can promise you that. It is a one-sided election in the BJP’s favour.

What are the problem states for the BJP?

In the southern and eastern parts, we traditionally suffer from organisational weaknesses. This problem does exist.

In the southern parts, what are you expecting from the alliances that have been forged, especially in Tamil Nadu?

I am hopeful. I think we will do well. I think our vote share will increase exponentially. There is a possibility of getting a good number of seats.

How many seats are you expecting?

Let me not start counting seats because I haven’t really travelled to southern India. My information is not based on primary sources. I am only telling you what I have learnt from people who are working on the ground. I can’t cite a figure based on telephonic conversations.

Rajnath Singh says Narendra Modi had nothing to do with your assignment as election-in-charge of Uttar Pradesh. We find it difficult to believe, especially given your proximity with Modi…

He is absolutely right. Narendra Modi and Amit Shah are loyal soldiers of the Bharatiya Janata Party. We do what the party has assigned us to do. I am a general secretary of the BJP and the party president asked me to manage elections in UP. It was his decision. Who goes where, who takes charge of different States is an organisational matter. It is purely the prerogative of the party president. Narendra Modi has nothing to do with it.

Tell us something about this newfound proximity between Rajnath Singh and Narendra Modi.

Look, Modijee is our PM candidate and Rajnathjee is our party president. There is harmony and good coordination between Rajnathjee and Modijee. It is a good thing for the party. I believe this coordination is the reason for our campaign to have picked up so well.

On the national scene, do you think people still look at you with distrust? Do you think it is necessary to win over the liberal intelligentsia who are suspicious of you?

I have never done anything in my life to win over anyone. I do my job with the honesty and integrity that I have and leave the judgment to others. I think this impression that you talk about, it has been created without knowing me. I believe once people get to know me, my work, they will begin to see things in a different light.

A section of the media believes you will be the second most powerful man in the country if the NDA comes to power and Modi becomes PM. Are you happy with this assessment?

This impression is not correct. Mein zamini star ka karyakarta hoon (I am a ground-level worker). I am a general secretary of the BJP like so many others. There are so many leaders in our party. What I mean is, forget number two, I am nowhere in the pecking order. Frankly, I am embarrassed about it.

But how do you feel about your position in the party hierarchy, what is the basis for this impression?

They say these things because I am in charge of UP. It is a critical state. That is why some hype has been created.

You are an outsider in UP. Did that pose a problem?

I never had any problem. I hail from the organisation so I know how common functionaries work. I am an RSS swayamsevak , I have been with the ABVP and I draw my inspiration from these roots.

They have shaped my functioning and my entire life. It is not just me and Narendra Modi who come from the RSS, Rajnathjee also comes from the RSS. We all belong to the same family.

Is there a division in the party’s ideological agenda and the development plank of the party? Ram Mandir is mentioned very late in your manifesto?

The manifesto reflects our agenda. There is no difference between the ideological line and development agenda. And what is the problem in mentioning Ram temple in the last pages?

If we had mentioned it in the front page, the media would have made an issue about that as well.

You might be suffering from a perception problem. We have no such confusion.

But you can’t deny that there were differences in the party over the articulation of your agenda. That is why the manifesto was delayed so much that you released it on a day when polling was going on in some states?

The BJP is a democratic party. We are not a family-run business. We try and evolve a consensus on everything. This time, too, we evolved a consensus, everyone voiced their opinion.

That should not be construed as a difference of opinion. Yes, the manifesto was delayed. I wish it wasn’t but when we did release it, everyone had endorsed. Everyone was on the dais when it was released.

You claim everyone is satisfied and everything has been resolved. Why is Sushma Swaraj not campaigning then? Have you succeeded in placating her?

What do you mean by that? What is the problem? Sushmajee is contesting an election.

She will campaign after her own election has concluded. Even before that, she has been campaigning in various states.

Just because you people choose to portray some trumped up reality, it doesn’t mean there is no truth. Sushmajee is campaigning and she will campaign. There is no problem.

What about Advani, what role would he have if and when Modi becomes PM; it is difficult to imagine him working under Modi…

I am a small fry. How can I comment on Advanijee’s role? Advanijee’s role will be decided by Advanijee himself. The parliamentary board will decide. How can I comment on that?

What about you? If the NDA comes to power, which you claim it will, will you join the government or work in the party/organisation?

About my own prospects, all I can say is that the party has taken every decision that was ever taken in my professional life.

But if you ask me, or more importantly, if the party asks me, my priority would be to work for the party.

So you’re against joining the government, if it is formed?

I am not against anything. All I am saying is that my personal priority is to work for the party.

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