‘Guns cannot be allowed to do the talking with Pakistan’

As tension between India and Pakistan soars, Hardeep Singh Puri, former Permanent Representative of India to the United Nations, who is now been appointed Chairman of Research and Information System for Developing Countries (RIS), believes dialogue is the only option to deal with Pakistan. In an interview with BusinessLine , Puri said isolating Pakistan, a nuclear state, would require an effort. Edited excerpts:

The Modi government will be completing three years in office next month but the tension with Pakistan is far from over. How do you view this?

It is very difficult to seek what is broadly called ‘normalisation’ if the other country constantly uses terror as an instrument of policy. There are two ways to approach this. You acknowledge the civilian elected government of Pakistan is not a free agent, and try to do business to the extent possible.

But, in case that does not work, then you have no option but to calibrate your response in such a way that you safeguard your interests.

I don’t think the Pakistan conundrum is one that can be viewed in terms of talks or no talks. When it comes to dealing with Pakistan per se , at the end of the day, you come to one conclusion – that you have no option but to talk to them.

The greater the adversity, the more the need for diplomacy.

You cannot allow the guns to do the talking for you, and I am afraid that is the position our western neighbour has taken.

When you are dealing with a nuclear weapon state, there is too much at stake.

Do you think a dialogue is possible now, with Pakistan entering the election phase?

Everything is contextual. We still need to talk. Pakistan needs to understand that they cannot let vipers grow in our backyard.

How do you view India’s stance on diplomatic isolation of Pakistan?

As I said, it takes two to tango. You can desire good bilateral relations, but that has to be shared by the other side. They may profess a look at bilateral issues but if there is interference with a view to causing destabilisation, then you have to be careful.

I believe Pakistan has thwarted our attempts to normalise the relationship. But the government has to decide if it wants to close the door forever. I would say, in spite of all this, we have to keep our lines open with Pakistan because their internal situation is such that it will cause anyone anxiety.

So you mean to say that isolating Pakistan is not possible?

Pakistan is a country of 200 million and it is a nuclear state. So, isolating Pakistan will require an effort. You have to make a decision whether the effort is worth our while. What needs to be done is to use the bilateral strength that India has with the US and to get them to use their margin of persuasion with Pakistan to say that their position is better served through political dialogue. In other words, India should not bring itself down to the level of what a rogue state does. What is required today is a fundamental change of heart in Pakistan. I do not see that happening easily. I think that should be our effort.

But all this is linked to the Kashmir issue …

Again, there are two issues related to it. One is domestic management. Clearly, we have to deal with that internally. I do not think it is anybody’s case that we have handled Kashmir perfectly. But your ability to deal with the situation there gets complicated by the external help that they get. State cannot abdicate its responsibility if people there take it on.

Even if you look at the Hurriyat, at one level they enjoy the state patronage, and at the same time, they have got an agenda that does not make sense to me. But we need to reach out. The very nature of the Indian state is such that we do not have an option but to exercise the margin of persuasion in such situations. There has to be framework within which people can talk.

Do you think it is time to resurrect the idea of demilitarisation of Kashmir?

No, I don’t think we can do that in the current situation. You can talk of reducing the forces, both paramilitary and others, in a calculated way. But you cannot allow the other side to walk in. So, there has to be a code of conduct. There has to be discussions first and then, may be as part of that, we can talk of reducing the forces. The stone-pelting youths need economic salvation. They need to acquire skills and get jobs.

The world’s largest military deployment is in Kashmir. Is it really needed after 70 years of independence?

This is one of the most difficult situations, which is partly a creation of history. And in all such situations, the answer does not lie on giving it over. I am not willing to believe that the Indian state has any other objective but to provide welfare there.

But for that, the state has to be given the opportunity. I think a package for Kashmir is doable, but there has to be an enabling environment for that kind of an effort to be made.

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